I've always been facinated by a good cups and balls routines.
Anyone got any good sources of learning cups and balls (books or dvds?)

I've got a set of aluminium cups with a chop cup that I bought from Maxello's which I've yet to put to good use.

Jeff,

Try to read Alex Elmsley's Cups and ball routines in his book or his DVD. Very surprise finish!

Also Larry jennings' Cup and ball version in his Classic magic of larry jennings written by Mike Maxwell.

There are many I can't recall right now but what I do know about the above 2 always in my mind.

Andrew

When I think Cups and Balls, Tommy Wonder always comes in. I think he has a DVD and book out on cups and balls.

Yeaps...so far Tommy Wonder's Cups & Balls routine is the best i've seen..
He's magnificent

David Regal also has his version, he used rodent in his act.

Andrew ;)

I have recently renewed my interest (ok, it's more of an obsession right now :P) for the Cups and Balls routine.
Saw a short video the other day which reminded me of the cups and balls Tommy Wonder taught during IF Magic last year, and the memories of the impact came back and now it's all wild again. B)

Anyways, anyone in here does this routine regularly or farmiliar with it?

And anyone know any good resources for this that can help me out? I am farmiliar with most of the basic sleights involved in the routine.
Specifically, I'm looking for any resources for a combination of chop cup with regular cups or convincers and subtitlities notes.

Anyone? :)

Ahhh....forgot this thread.... B)

Thanks for the merge :)

Aloy, since you already know the basics, I think it's time for innovations and moving forward to the next level.

There are only that few things that can happen in any Cups and Balls routine -

* appearance and disappearance of the balls
* transposition of the balls
* penetration of cups or wand through cups
* transformation of balls (color or size or to other items)
* and the finale - what kind of big loads are you introducing.

I would suggest that you separate the Cups and Balls routine from the Chop Cups routine - that way you have two different acts. Try out the Benson Bowl routine too - another form of the Chop Cups routine.

Start off with standard cups (metal, leather or wood)
- please bear in mind that the quality of the cups do help in creating different optical illusions for the finale or for transposition effects.

Then innovate by using other containers like mini flower pots, mini metal waste paper baskets, tall drinking metal cups (without handle), etc.

Try using different objects instead of sponge balls or crocheted balls.

And after that GUESS WHAT ....

You have an original creation by ALOY, the Asia Cups and Balls professor and then the world starts going crazy over your routine and become a top item in all magic shops.

When there is innovation from the norm there is maturity in the art.

Believe in yourself - yes you can become a powerful, famous creator in magic too.

I'm waiting to buy your creation, Aloy - you already got your first customer :!!:

LOL... :lol:
Don't hold your breath James. It's gonna quite a wait... ;)

I'm just revisiting this effect after being reminded of Tommy Wonder's routine I saw during IF Magic last year. :)
And i'm quite far from the level necessary to invent something, so no delusions of that on my part. ;)
I'm just looking at the routineing done by the big names, how they structure the flow, and ways to manage the final loads and different finales.

You must have seen tons of cups and balls James. Tell us some of the more creative routines and final load management.

Why is it that the chop cup is usually used seperately as a 1 cup routine?
By itself it's quite a clever utility, but combined with regular cups, it should really add on some real stunners? It seems that most of the pple has only seen chop cup used as a 1 cup routine.

Check out:
1) Scott F. Guinn's Great Scott! It's More Magic! Vol 3
He utilizes chop cup in his 2 cups & balls routine.

2) Dominique Duvivier's The Magic Of Dominique Duvivier Vol 3
He utilizes chop cup in his 3 cups & balls routine. He perform this routine with an assistant with music playing.

3) Flicking Fingers’ The Movie
One of them use chop cup in his 2 cups & balls routine.

Though I don't often perform cups & balls (whether it's other people's routine or my routine) but I love it very very much. I try my best to collect all the DVDs in the market that teaches or just perform cups & balls.

Thanks for that Samuel B) That is very helpful. :)


Cheers

The best cups and balls routines can be seen in the FISM competitions - try hunting for those tapes and you would love them. These routines are not released for commercial teach-ins - that's why many people didn't get the chance to view the world champion tapes.



If you were to study the structures of the different routines you would noticed that certain techniques that are used in the Chop Cups will clash in the Cups and Balls routine.

That is why the masters isolate them - anyway you get two different routines - why not.

Yes, you can do the routines with the combo cups - give them a try - mix and match the techniques and gradually work out the entire act.


Most importantly you need to choose a very good set of cups - any model would do except those made in India. Too many complains by them - each run made by them are not consistent. You can verify with the experts in the MagicCafe forum - those that have used the Indian sets would switch to the other sets immediately.

I can't explain the load management as this is an open forum - you now what I mean.

But generally loads like big sponge balls, large crocheted balls, heavy and big ball bearings, big crystal balls, fruits (whether real or fakes), or other funny items have been used.


I would encourage everyone to develop a basic and simple cups and balls routine first (for basic understanding) - then move on to doing Vernon's routine (all the powerful routines are basically an innovated version of Dai Vernon's routine) and then start creating your own.

As for Chop cups start off with the Don Alan's routine - considered the master of Chop Cups.

Most of the routines are derivatives of Vernon's and Don Alan's as the basis for expansion.

Aloy, check this out.

Jason Latimer - performing his FISM award winning championship Cups and Balls Routine on Late Late Show
- http://youtube.com/watch?v=YlAvfUKvLCw

Tell me what you think.

I saw his FISM cups and balls and card+ball manipulation before, but haven't seen this one.

But man! What's wrong with this audience?! :lol: They dead or something? There was no reaction to the and production of the cups and his opening at all!
I think they must be too busy popping their eyeballs back into their heads to react. :lol: It's Hilarious! He even has to prompt them a little after the 2nd opening move.
There is NO WAY anyone is not amazed by that, and they couldn't have seen it before ever. Only possibility is that the impact is too fast and hard hitting for layman to even have time to react.
This is a great example of an audience too shocked to react!

Anyways, i think it's an amazing routine like no cups and balls routine ever. I mean, it's a Fism winner for very good reasons B)
The steals and loads are almost completely different from traditional cups and balls techniques, and a lot of creative new sleights, combining spongeballs with cups and balls.
Amazing stuff B)

Oh yes, I'm impressed with his steal B)

Jason's routine is really thinking outside the box work.

Just when everyone think they saw all the cups and balls routine - Jason appears with the transparent crystal glass to knock everyone off the chair.

I think I'll come up with a routine with the toilet bowls :!!:

I saw Lance Burton on TV performing his version of the CnB. He used porcelain coffee mugs, and finished with a lemon, an orange.....and finally a mouse!

I thought it was cute.

And you can use a big pile of s**t as final load! :lol: :lol:

How's that for thinking out of the box :lol:

LOL Great Idea, Aloy :lol:

Okay.. I know this thread has been idle for a long time.. but anyways.. Does anyone have recommendations on a set of GOOD QUALITY and AFFORDABLE cups for the cups and balls routine..

(AFFORDABLE = approx RM250-300)

I have a cheapo alluminuim cups set, which I feel is too light.

Isaac mentioned a set of 'Phoenix Cups', but tats like USD200 = RM700!

Yin Howe, there is a lot of differences between good cups and cheap cups. Good cups have their own character that would allow different techniques and effects to be performed, especially the finale.

It is advisable to use heavy cups. You can do more things with them.

You have seen my cups and they are all performance tested cups. And most of them are on the heavy side.

Save more money so you can get a good set of cups. You won't regret it.

Thank you Mr James Tong for the insight. So, lets say I would like to purchase a 'good' set of cups, what are your recommendations for the cups currently on the market (phoenix cups, penguin cups..)? and where do i find them (dealers website etc)?

Although unlikely that i'll be purchasing it immediately, but i would like to check them out.

Bill Palmer Quoted in Magic Cafe:

Isaac

Thanks Isaac,

yeah, I was initially looking at the Penguin Cups but was kinda sceptical when you mentioned about bad reviews of the Penguin cups.

I like the Paul Fox design of the Penguin cups, I didn't quite like the design of the Phoenix cups.

Yin Howe, I would recommend that you pay a visit to www.themagiccafe.com and click on 'ever so sleightly' and you will find that it is focused only on cups and balls. Almost every cup is discussed in detail there. Learn what you can and when you have saved enough you will know what cup you want to get.

Wierd that Cups and balls are loved so widely around the world but seems to be missing from Malaysian Magicians repertoire.. Maybe its just the inconvinience of carrying 3 big ass cups (maybe also a table!) around as opposed to a deck of cards/sponges/coins/pen in your pocket, and also lack of performance venues (Msian's seem to favour walkround/street magic)

All 'top magcicians' around the world are good in cups and balls. You can verify that in the Magic Cafe and Genii forums.

If you go over to the Magic Cafe forum and click on to 'ever so sleightly' section, you will find that I have compiled a list of top performers specialising in at least one type of cups and balls routine. The list is free for everyone. So many people helped me compiled that list with their contribution and research and it is only the tip of the ice berg.

If you were to do a detailed research from those two forums you will find the importance of cups and balls ... and these top magicians pay very close attention to cups and balls for good reasons.

True lovers of magic will find the importance of the cups and balls, and other magic classics.

Is the love for magic as a performing art in malaysia really genuine, serious and committed? The answer to the question you asked, Yin Howe, will be from yourself, based on my question.

A point to note is that many top performers are not full time professionals. They consist of lawyers, attorney generals, accountants, engineers, etc, and they also have a family life too. They are also very busy in life BUT they find time to be TRUE TO MAGIC!

Yup, I already paid a visit to themagiccafe forum

Do a research there and you will understand the cups and balls better.

Or, if you want, you can try and learn Penn and Teller's cups and balls routine XD

They use clear plastic cups! Hahaha, seriously, go look at it on youtube. It's an amazing lesson in misdirection.

yeah.. I've seen it.. 3 cups, 4 hands.. hehe.

Jason Latimer also uses clear cups

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6wzb7amY78


saw this routine on youtube.. damn good.. Johnny 'Ace' Palmer!