What do you guys think? I know there are a lot of underground magicians and flourishers out there. Sometimes i think why arent they professional or why dont they wanna become professional? i mean the have the skill and ability to make it up there amongst the professional.... yet why they still wanna stay as a underground magician?

any thoughts on that guys? surely there are some pros and cons. What ya guys think :P

Cheers,
MagicB

i think no one wants to stay underground if they have the means to make a living professionally.

people stay amatuer because they cant make a living doing what they love full time.

my 2 cents.

Don't you think it depends on what subject we're talking about, Rainking?

I'd love to have my own proper close up show, be it paid or not. Thought I never thought of doing this for money.

As long as you go out and perform your stuff for real people, you're a superstar in your own right. There are even "underground professionals"- those we haven't heard of, but are making big bucks, doing good shows, and then there are the "professional undergrounds"- people good at staying low, who would rather do stuff for mirrors and cameras than for real, breathing folks. The reason why you don't see magic on my site is that I'd rather be entertaining real people than a screen. Which type are you? ;)

And back to the original question,

People have their reasons, and you have to respect that. Magic/flourishes are more of a hobby to them than a living, and looking at people who have those as their occupations, it's not all that it's up to be... your level determines your income. So yeah, think about it :D

-Kev

great point u have there kev. yeah... i think its better showing off flourishes on vid rather than magic as i think magic is better to perform in real life audiences to get the reactions u want. but if u are recording for ya own personal collection, i think its ok.

i mainly do magic in a vid which are angle sensitive and not likely to be achievable if i do real audience.. hehe..

Don't know guys, sometimes when I hear they are from underground, I am interested to know more about them, e.g Ken Krenzel.

Andrew

doktokaro,

i guess it applies generally.

wont u love to make money doing something u really enjoy doing?
instead of a 9-9 desk job which "because it pays the bills..."


maybe it only applies to me. maybe someday you'll see it my way.

i guess its important to do what u really wanna do.

i wanna clarify my earlier post.

going pro means being able to do it FULL TIME.

if u keep your dayjob, you are not pro yet.

reason people dont go pro is thay cant make enough money to make a living.
they dont have the contacts, marketing, etc.
although skill is the most important factor, it isnt the only factor.

It is definitely wrong to classify those working underground and not going out into the world as unprofessional. In your terms, professional means being a famous magician out there and performing...

For some people, they take magic as a hobby and find fun in performing to family and friends. But they have their own lives too. I simply do not find magic a long term profession simply because I choose to live my life as a future engineer and not a future magician. Then again, magic plays a very important part of my life and it serves to be as a hobby and a skill...

My point is that, your classification of magicians are narrowed down to professionals and undergrounds...nothing else. For the record, I'm neither...Magic for me is a hobby and although I'm very enthusiastic about it, it stays a hobby... I enjoy it as much as everyone else on the Board but thats as far as it will go...

My two cents peeps...

i'm not classifying them as unprofessional.

just amateur. like me.

being pro doesnt mean being famous. being pro means making it your bread and butter full time. tahts all

:)

either you are pro, semi pro (i think this term is malaysian coined) , or amatuer.

Well...
I think it depends on the person. If he is able to do some stuff which is able to earn him some reputation, I think that is quite pro.
Another thing is, not being full time doesn't mean not pro. For example, I have a pastor who is a magician. He is pro and he isn't full time as well.
I think it's based on skill rather on the occupation.

"professional" is a status.

like pro snooker player
pro driver
pro golfer
pro bowler
pro stitute (just joking)

ksat ,


i think your pastor is a member of this forum too.

I think you can be considered a Pro if you get paid for what you do or make a living out of it... but not just getting paid in the sense that you're just waiting for the opportunity to come, but you also search high and low and try your best to make a living out of it.. whether you succeed or not.

Skills or popularity don't really matter, but it's the ENTERTAINMENT factor (since we're talking about performing art here) that matters the most, and how well you handle the business.

to go out pro is like setting up a business....

gotta know the right people....market yourself, advertise....etc
so it's a whole different aspect of magic there i think...

sometimes u can be real good, but u got no contacts, then u can't go pro

I think if you are well-known and you perform a lot of show whether in parties, royal families, publics, I will consider that this is really in a 'pro' business. ^_^

Andrew

Underground.
My personal reason: Training.
There is a lot to train for what I'm aiming for. Very good stuff.
Will come out of the hole later.

The others mostly have also these reasons:
-Avoidance of fame.
-Not the main job/future as mindfreak has said(2nd reason for me).
-Keeping the performance/routine special/exclusive thereby increasing value of it. XCM is becoming widespread so those guys hanging on this reason will become less but not that fast.... yet.

Pro Malaysian Magicians..... at this moment, need to thrive on 2nd jobs or magic item sales. Full time pro, no need magicshop type magician..... we need to fill the requirement of LOTS MORE capable Magicians in Malaysia first. Then there'll be better magic shops and better prices of magic items. Then.... bla bla bla..... u figure out the chain reaction yourself. Last I heard, the Magician working at Genting is an Argentinian. Don't really know who though. I don't really bother myself much about it. Heh.

*pOof*

i think its such a waste if you are very good in performing but not making some profit out of it..
but for me i will only make it as a part time job instead of a full time one..

Its all abt have a NETWORK of contacts and good word of mouth.

Do one performance, get a good review from ya clients -- > word of mouth.. spreads and in no time u will be contacted again...

learn this off bill malone... :) a great entertainer....

*pOof*