Hi guys and gals

I have seen many creators of magic effect from various country,
for example our neighbour, Singapore, they got Ace's coin tru bottle, Alpha magic's flare and such

I wonder do we malaysia have our very own original effects founded or invented by malaysians?
If yes, what is it?

(and please, 0.50 and 0.20 ringgit coin bite is not MALAYSIA VERY OWN MAGIC , haha)

Well what do you mean by original effects?
I've got a bunch of things I came up with that aren't published....
does that count?
I'm sure a lot of you also have stuff you've come up with on your own..

Are you talking about marketed effects?

Marketed or unpublished, anything

Maybe can just discuss about the effects here ( not the method)

So far all tricks i see our local magicians did on tv are mostly invented by other magicians oversea

I'm always wanting to see some local creation :P
( yea i have seen some, like balloon into balloon, haha )

Let's be realistic, if you put it here, if the idea is any good, someone else is gonna steal it. This is an open forum.
Whether the method is the same or not is not relevant.

So my advise is don't. But if you wanna go ahead, be my guest. Just don't blame the MMF forums if your precious ideas gets stolen.

Ok Jeff, lets say i am being realistic, i created a superb n wonderful effect, and i keep it all to myself, and i perform to the mirror only everyday, so that nobody will see my effect and the secret is well kept??

Effect i say is, very own creation of 'magic' ,sharing the outcome of magic,the final result, and not how is it done.

Lets have an example like indecent, i can say it is about a signed card penetrates into a sealed sandwich bag, that is the effect, nobody will know how is it actually done without purchasing the dvd

If the effects can be reverse engineered and the methods can be figured out easilly, then no point all magic shops and creators publish and sell their products, since ppl can easily figure out how is it done

It is not patter, presentation or routines that might be copied by someone else

I hope i make myself clear :)

I think what Jeff was trying to say was don't post the effect here before you get the chance to perform it in public, or otherwise publish it and trademark it as yours.

Or, at the very least, you get some sort of recognition for creating/performing the effect, within the magic community. You know, when someone says something like, "Hey! That's Chris Ng's trick!"

All the best.

Perform your trick all you want. To your audience. I just wouldn't perform it to other magicians that's all, unless they are people I absolutely trust.

A person doesn't have to reverse engineer a trick to be able to perform it. He could figure another method, which achieves the same effect, in the eyes of the audience, it is no different.

I'm just saying, it would suck if an idea (not method) of yours gets stolen. So I'm just advising you not to talk about your ideas, unless you don't mind someone else taking your ideas.

Alright thanks i got it now

It depends on whether the idea is new or the method is new..

I believe that if the idea is new, we would want to trademark it before it is published..

Im abit disappointed by theory11 , i thought it would be some new idea in magic, or at least something new, no it is all bout cards coins and normal magic... worse of all, it doesnt relate to David copeprfield ...

If the method is new to achieving certain effects, it has lesser risk to be exposed i guess

well if you are afraid of it being copied then just publish it quickly before someone else comes up with a similar idea...
i don't think you can copyright it though...

I can't see why you're so dissapointed with T11
I reckon the concept is good, magic by people who actually know their stuff...
wasn't much of a surprise to me since I already knew what it was gonna be...
good idea nonetheless

I am just 'a bit' disappointed

I was expecting something big/ grand/ extraordinary/ related to David Copperfield..

Haha , who knows the 11 stands for 11 people in the team...

Can I know who incorperate balloon skill in to magic..? B)

Hmmm...
Not necessary...
Depends on what you are going for...

If you created an original effect, you can post a video of it on the forums. Experienced magicians can help to varify if the effect is original. You can also know the standard of your effect from the responses of others in the forum. If the response is good you can try to market your effect.

Sure, someone out there will try to reverse engine your effect. But don't let that stop you from creating your own magic.

Hope to see new effects from Malaysian magicians soon!

Yeah , I do know some of them

Dante Law from taiwan did a balloon trick during subang magic festival, he split the balloon into two

Cris tito did a needle through balloon

Yea, i remember both of them did incorporated balloons into their routine

Very True

That's an old trick...

Samuel is the one who did the BIB.. lol.. Did I just ruin the fun ? I'm sorry.. :!!:

For this tread,I stand in line with Christopher Ng for I believe or I really hope that MMF would be a place where new magic effects are being introduced for open discussion. Personally for me, as I notice as a whole, I really think that MMF is way too "afraid" for magic explosure. Magic explosure isn't good yes I know but if even magic effects or new ideas are not encouraged for open discussion, I see no purpose in coming here.

To benefit those magic lovers and to avoid hecklars, perhaps we may open a room just for people who have sufficient post counts to enter to view and give feedbacks regarding a certain topic. Isn't that great ? Many forums I see work this things out. Perhaps you may set the post count to 80 posts. ( I just reach my regular forummite position :!!: :!!: )

"Magic is the art that reaches out to the world" from Jeremy Fu

Exposure is not the point here.

The point is that we want you to be careful of putting out a method/trick/routine/effect/your face on MMF. We don't want something that you worked hard on to be stolen from you.

As for having a section where magic is discussed at a more in depth level, we already have one. It's called The Fellowship. It is not open to the public, and a selected few are able to see and participate in the hidden section.

Please make sure you read the whole topic and understand it before you go off on a totally different tangent.

Jeremy,

If you really want to, go ahead and post your ideas.
Its just friendly advise.Nobody is stopping you. Honestly, I'd love that and it will be interesting to see new ideas developing. But if your ideas get ripped off by anyone, please don't blame the forums.

Food for thought,
do you see established magicians on the Magic Cafe discussing their unreleased / unpublished effects before they are published? Even in the section where discussion of methods are allowed ie the Banquet Room, do you see it happening?

Or Marketing Execs discussing fresh new ideas with people from other companies BEFORE they execute their campaign?

If we set post count to 80.
Many people will SPAM the forum in order to squeez into it.
As they are too many pirates around, we really do not recommend you to "explose ... I mean expose :D " your effect here. "Hecklars :lol: :lol: " and pirates will come and haunt you.

About original effect,
I guess most Malaysian love copying.

We can see from performer,
The Malaysia Elvis,
The Malaysia Jordan,
The Malaysia XXX, YYY, JJJ, KKK.
We are not the very original people.

From Primary till High School, we are thought how to memorize and copy the "correct" answer. We are generally not encourage to innovate and force into a model "answer".

I guess this is why we are not coming out with new effect.
But, it should be encourage in forum like this.
We need to be re-educated.
We need a reformation in Magic Society of Malaysia.

Isaac

Actually we should encourage each other to come out with new idea and effects, so that we can grow together with magic and not stuck at the stage of cards and coin magic

Take an example of the mask magicians, he exposed grand illusions in tv for free, many magicians complained, in the end they worked a way out of it, they innovated and invented new ideas and tricks

For those who has some ridiculously crazy idea or seem to be impossible idea, work on it, you might be the founder of the next big thing

For those of you who has ideas but dont know where to start, maybe can throw it out and we can brainstorm to achieve that effect, but its better to make it privately as the mods had mentioned that this is a free access forum

Think, how was levitation magic created?
Some guy must be thinking, i want to fly
Or at least appear to be floating, without string and wire
What is floating? the legs leave the ground, defying gravity
How to float? how can i magically appear to be floating to others?
And that is how balducci levitation is invented ( most probably)

Be original, do not be like an imitation of some magicians you see in dvds, this is what Jeff Mcbride always emphasise,do not be a clown of Mcbride..lol
originality is critical to succession in magic, do not be copy cat ,
if you do, ppl will just treat u as some pirated ''someone'' and not you yourself.

Most of us do have original ideas.

However, in the context of methodology, there isn't much that can be considered new. There are, however, new ways to present things, or expanded and modified methods which, in the end, borrow upon the basic principles of Magic.

For instance, how many methods are there to vanish a coin? Countless, no doubt. But they all rely on the same basic principle. You hide it somewhere.

Please understand that MMF is not trying to stifle your creativity. We are trying to protect you from the reality that is the Malaysian Magic community : There are many crooks out there who will screw you in a heartbeat.

If you do come up with something new, do it properly. Do the research; make sure no one has come up with it before. Then publish your work, trademark it.

It's good that you think that we should not become carbon-copies of established magicians. I like that thought, I've always tried to advocate that.

Adlan's feedback indicated that explosure is not the main concern and this somehow isn't what Isaac meant. Isaac replied that for people will spam replies in reaching the counts for perhaps that hecklar will haunt me ? :blink:
Adlan shows his concern that he wanted me to be careful that maybe my invented ideas might be stolen away. Thank you you two for your feedbacks. However,there are some issues which I wanted not to see and received.

I love sharing ideas and discuss with people with experiences about the things we enjoy. Tell me that you do not like showing your new ideas to your friends when hanging out. Wait ! If you anyone try to shoot me that discussing in the public forums is different,allow me to say something foremost.

Click at the toolbar for http://forums.malaysiamagicfellowship.com

On the very first phrase do you guys notice such words ?

" Malaysia Magic Fellowship Forums is a free community for Malaysia magicians and magic hobbyist. Buy, learn or trade magic tricks with local magicians in Malaysia. Exchange magic tips and pointers or learn magic tricks from each other. "

Totally almost 100% because of afraid people who try to ruin our magic art. MMF has been very strict in taking measures to prevent such things from occuring. Consequences are : ( From my own perspective ponit of view )

The best : There are almost no hecklars in this community (hurray)

The worst : No Freedom for posting sensetive topics and replies as this will generate a variety of disagreeable opinions.

I will not elaborate any further for I believe after this reply is posted, I see wonders.


Please... If a mini gathering can be held and new effecs are encouraged for open discussion, why cannot such things be held in this forum ? I believe hecklars will not spam till a certain number of post counts to haunt my ideas. They can easily acces to other sources.

Especially to Adlan only : I understand that I face a risk that if put my ideas on forums,there will be a tendency that my creation will be stolen. Please do not say that

"We don't want something that you worked hard on to be stolen from you."
( quated from Adlan)

Who are you to judge me whether or not you do not want me to have my ideas being stolen. If I like to share my secrets I created,let it be. Jeff Gan gave also a very friendly advice that he is not stopping me from giving ideas. I am responsible for my deed and I WILL never blame MMF for what I do.

There is a reason why I like to share my ideas and what I do. I firmly believe that by sharing out ideas with magic lovers, this would bring more good than harm. I am not saying that I'm crossing the line to share out all secrets , here as Christopher says " NEW EFFECTS ! come on lets discuss ". Immediately I notice Adlan kinda disagree with it. I say let it be a room specially designed for new effects being discussed. Issac disagree with my ideas,saying that people will spam to reach 80 post counts to haunt my ideas.

Sorry if you happen to read it till here,some of you may be offended from what I say. I really do not care who is who and I speak forth my ideas after thinking twice and I certainly do not wear a mask to hide myself.


"But, it should be encourage in forum like this.
We need to be re-educated.
We need a reformation in Magic Society of Malaysia" ( quoted by Iassac )

Yes Isaac let it be,lets have a reformation.. I'll definitely be with you for these purposes...


( sorry for the long reply again as I love giving opinions especialy the one that interests me-I going for my journalisms dream job as a writer :!!: )

I can find so many faults with your arguements, but you know what, I'm not gonna bother. Its your ideas, not mine. I'll share mine with people I trust, not over a public forum where anyone, MMF regulars, non MMF regulars, non members and even laymen can read.

No need to argue with me or Adlan. Just go ahead and share your ideas.

Yea, if you want to share, i believe many here will give good feedbacks and positive comments/ criticism to improve the effect

i just want to have the feel of malaysia very own wholly and exclusively magic effects :P

Let's do this. :P

Tips and pointers are not synonymous with methods & magic secrets. I don't need to explain this as I'm sure there are a lot of intelligent people around here.

MMF is a free forum which doesn't charge its forum-users anything to post or register. However, the server where this forum is hosted paid for and maintained by the Administrator, namely Mr. Aloy, out of the good graces of his heart and his genuine sincerity in wanting the Malaysian Magic community to flourish. As such, posting on MMF is a privilege, not a right.

This is going to sound arrogant, but I don't care. Hahaha.
I am a Moderator elected by the admins of MMF to maintain the integrity and quality of the postings. I have been an MMF member for more than 2 years, and I have been there for the earliest gatherings and meetings.

I have been a magic hobbyist for the past 15 years, since I was a child. I have experience performing on stage, in parlour situations and performing close-up in corporate functions, expos, parties, whatever.
I have had the experience of being immature, inexperienced and naive and showing a trick that I racked my brains to come up with, only to have it stolen by someone.

So, I think that I have some authority over what's been said on this forum.
Now, why don't you tell me who you are before asking me who I am.

Sigh. Why don't you read my posts again. I did not disagree. I merely cautioned Christopher to be careful of crooks and pirates and whatnot. If he wants to post his effects here anyway, then go ahead.

Isaac is a wise man. Maybe you should listen to him.

Are you even reading my replies? I already said that MMF does have a private room where more in-depth discussions are allowed. Forum-users who are allowed into this room are given the tag THE FELLOWSHIP. Some members include Isaac, Samuel, Lai, James Tong and myself. Once in a while, the admins will select a few lucky people to be let into these private forums.

I repeat : WE DO HAVE A PRIVATE SECTION.


I promote healthy discussion, however I will not tolerate it when my words are taken out of context and been made to look like I am a tyrannical despot, intent on supressing the freedom of speech. I am not.

Neither do I.

;)

Yep.

Go ahead.

We've said what needs to be said.

Don't say we didn't warn you.

Have fun, cheers!

Yo Adlan, i'm not here to share my new effects, because i have none yet

I'm just here to ask whether is there any local effects that I as a malaysian can be proud of, hehe :P

So dont expect something new or big from me, thank you

B)

It's amazing how things get off-topic so easily, huh? :P

Hehe, i quote my very first post

so have i made myself clear? lol, i dont understand why it get so so out topic and into such a debate.haha

""I wonder do we malaysia have our very own original effects founded or invented by malaysians?
If yes, what is it?""

This is my original intention

Actually i think this topic is very subjective :)

Creating a new effect from a existing sleight is it original?

Compilling ideas from your experience in magic to create your effect is it original?

I saw Kevin Ho's KFC tutorial cut in youtube, i've learn it, change and modify it to suit myself, is it original?

Wayne Houchin's stigmata can be counted as original?

Imagine Alexander Graham Bell who invented telephone not far back in the 1876 look at how the technology has involved into now :). If we didnt develop the technology of telephone, maxis would nvr exist and ananda krishnan would not be the 2nd richest man in malaysia.

I believe what Chris meaning is that he wants more malaysian magician to stand out with their very own "popular" effect. Mmf getting boring nowadays, its good to have some healthy topic like this, keep it healthy ! :)

Magic need reformation,

1st thing we need to do is to brush up our English.
I am one of the bad apple among all MCG. :lol:
Jeremy,
Nothing will explode here right? Chill right?
No "explosure(wrong)" here. Big No No to "exposure(right)".
Hecklers(right) are bad because they heck-lar(wrong) us.

You really wanna post your trick for free?
I mean you wanna post a special effect/good/out of the world/brand new effect with techniques and sleights in MMF?
Before doing so, please "post" it/ Email it to chinhoe86@magicgarage.org
If it is good, I will register it and sell it. :lol: :lol:

Chris is just asking whether anyone in Malaysia have new effect.
For example, I found a new way to levitate a card without using any IT.
Or do you know Asher's Twist? Mine is similiar but I can change all the card to a different back in the end as kicker.

That are example of original effects. You need not new sleights or super chun stuff. He is not asking for any secret.

Isaac

i was reading up on this and jesus its a long post.

Anyways, i think theres nothing left to be said. Adlan posted it all :P

my question is. how does one get into the fellowship? Because i am willing to stay under a full moon, naked with candied apples stuck to my head just to get into such a group hehe :)

regards,

Nadz the Nadz

Well Nadz, that depends on the Administrators. Mods can only recommend names for induction into the Fellowship.

We watch individual postings for quality and dedication towards magic. If by any chance someone strikes us as being suitable, we will recommend his/her name to the Administrators.

After that, it's up to them to decide.

Cheers!

B)

Hmm time for me to join in the fray. Yay!

Now, what is an effect? Is it the method, or what the audiences see?

If you are defining it as method, then yes I believe that Malaysian magicians may have some unpublished stuff that's really good.

If you are definining it as what the audiences see, then I think that original effects are extremely hard to come by. A coin through bottle is a coin through bottle no matter what method you use. So is an acr, etc.

Jeremy, there's no need to get so worked up about all this. The mods are just doing their jobs as they are trying to protect you from losing your work and effort. If you want to publish your stuff here go ahead, no one's stopping you. The mods are just warning you of what might happen.

I have a problem when people justify the actions of Valentino or any exposer, be it Penn & Teller or anyone else, but I'll explain why in another thread.

All the more reason to be cautious, yes?

Yes expossure has never been a good thing

Be it part or the effect or intentionally

But like what Sze Howe has said, it is very dependant on personal judgement

Mask Magician exposed magic, its not right, but he already did. what can magicians do? We can sue him but is impossible to erase the memories from the spectators.
What can magicians do? be more hardworking, think, and work a way out

Somebody prefers sucker effects, telling the audience what is a magician is going to do ,then create another suprising climax out of it using reverse psychology.

like revealing that the magician was actually p**ming a dup. piece of paper, tear the other one, and in the end restore both( suprise ending) , its still an expossure however, because he did revealed some of the method use ,which more or less hurts magic when others perform similiar effect.
Audience will not know the method, all they see is the effect

I do have ppl relate my acr to svengali... swt

Dont worry...even Guy Hollingworth was beaten by a svengali
*for those of you who have actually read his book you should know =)

Adlan, theres a private discussion called the fellowship ????!!!
Since when????? :!!: LOL
this is the first time im hearing about this .hahaha
As Nadzri said ,im willing to do anything to man .Any suggestions??Hahahah

Well, like I said, we watch you for your commitment towards magic and performing, things like that. We have to know that we can trust you with magic's secrets, so to speak.

Ultimately, the Admins will decide who gets in. Mods can recommend names to them, though.

Good luck!

Wow. Hope i can join . :lol:
Going to try my best to join :)