heres the deal... what type of tricks or effects do you do to ppl who have seen u do alot of magic and sometimes know when ur gonna do something...
kinda like performing to a fellow magician??

Why do you feel the need to impress people with a lot of tricks?
You should be polishing some old tricks so you can do them better than anyone else, so they'll enjoy it even though they've seen it before.
Quality over quantity....never forget.

yea i know quality counts big but seriously.. who doesnt get bored of watching the biddle trick for thousands of times?? and i usually hear from other magicians that "dont do the same trick twice" thing...

maybe i posted my question wrongly but this is what i wanted to know..
what type of trick to do for ppl who are not so easily amazed???
eg. CTW, CIB or anything other thing??

The reason they are not amazed is because of your presentation and build up.

I have built up a simple criss-cut force trick to great heights and gotten amazing reactions, like the best thing they've ever seen.

Take for example the biddle trick.
What sort of premise are you setting for it? or are you just doing the trick without patter.
What sort of effect are you aiming to show to the audience. A card vanish and transposition? Does it happen in your hands? Spectators hand? On the table?

you have to take many things into account to create a spectacular outcome.
Here's an example:

1.spectator shuffles the deck (you tell them you want to emphasize the fairness of the effect, they can examine the deck etc.)

2.you have them take a card out without u touching the deck, then you take the deck back and have them show the card around as to free up their hands.

3.You have them return the card to any position in a spread once again emphasizing the fairness of the trick.

4.You start with your method of the biddle trick showing some cards and stealing their selection out.

5.you give them the deck to hold, better yet ask them to give it to someone else or keep it in their pocket so you can't get anywhere near the deck.

6.you falsely show and inaccurate number of cards in your hands.

7.you *pretend* to try and read their mind therefore turning this trick into a reading specs mind - vanish - transpo effect, increasing the total outcome of the trick. (good acting and structured patter is essential for this)

8.You vanish the card and let the spectators examine whats left. emphasizing you're not hiding anything.

9.Final revelation, you can request back the deck and spread through to show the selection back in the pack or get them to do it themselves, either way its the climax. (a good build up is important here, i.e. you vanish the card then speculate to the audience as where it could be.)


so as you can see from my short essay here, a simple biddle trick can really be brought to new heights with a slight bit of tweaking in the manner of presentation (this is just the original biddle trick but with more emphasis on the fairness and the fact that it looks like you didn't do a thing with the cards).
The same effect can be presented as a completely different one if you set it up correctly.

Yes, Amane, with presentation a trick can be amazing and be seen multiple times.

However, there is a certain threshold of watching the same trick a number of times, different for every person, after which although it may be entertaining, it will lose the 'wow' factor.

IF you are talking about this situation, Taufiq, then I suggest that you let the person know that learning magic is a time-consuming thing, and this is currently all you are capable of showing.

If, however, you are talking about tricks with the wow factor, then Amane has given a very good example. Even though so, Darwin Ortiz, in his book Designing Miracles, states that the base effect needs to be strong first. For it to be strong, it needs to appear impossible. As long as you structure and routine a trick to make it seem impossible, you will have a strong effect.

i see....thnx for the truck load of tips amane!! :lol: ...
i think my biddle is quiet alright since i do get quite a good reaction...
but i do have to work on my audience management since my sister saw the move since she was standing behind me while i was performing :P ...

anyway thanks ALOT guys

You shouldn't have ANY angles when doing the biddle trick except from the bottom haha

All the moves are pretty much angle-proof
You better check your sleights.

if im not mistaken.. i accidentally jogged the card to the side a bit while doing the biddle move... thats when she went screaming... I SAW U TOOK THE CARD!!! then i just ignore... and when i finished she went to my cousin (the spectator) and really explained... i think my sis got it right since she saw me do the biddle trick like hundreds of time already...hahahaha...

I want to go back to Taufiq's question for a bit.

My suggestion would be not to perform anything anymore. Since you mentioned that the people you perform for have seen you perform magic a lot, and I agree with Amane on the "quality over quantity" bit, then not performing would be the ideal solution.

I used to perform tricks at the drop of a hat to everyone, and sometimes even without being asked. Now I rarely do anything to anyone. I only show a few tricks every now and then, and even then I view the performance as a practice session in order to see if a certain trick would be practical for me in a real-life situation.

I know, I know. If you can't perform, then what's the point of being a "magician"? well, in my case, I want to turn my hobby into a situation where I am able to perform professionally (or at least, semi-professionally) in front of an actual audience instead of just for friends and family.

And I truly believe that everyone who gets into magic has the urge, however remote, to become somewhat of a pro, or to emulate the performers that they've seen in DVDs or TV shows, etc.

I've had "magicians" say to me, "Oh, this is just a hobby, I don't want to perform for anyone." Now if you were a collector of magic memorabilia, I would believe you. But if you weren't then I'd say you were bullsh!++ing me. If you don't want to perform, then go collect stamps. :rolleyes:

But, having said all that. I wouldn't recommend showing tricks indiscriminately. It cheapens our Art and seems amateurish (which ironically, most of us are, myself included). It's okay when you have group of magicians or friends to discuss and improve upon your tricks or routines and give you honest critiques, but try not to perform just because someone asked you to. Another thing, people around you tend to get bored with you. Most people will not have the same enthusiasm for magic as you do, especially if you keep showing them tricks. Keep it to a bare minimum, and that will keep the anticipation going. Keep them wanting more!

Anyway, performing less would create an air of mystery around you, as well.

As a post-script : The above opinions are mine and mine alone. If you don't agree with me, ignore me. I don't care. Good luck!

Keep'em wanting more. Less is more right? :)

Do also keep in mind that performing is the best practice, however, one should select the situation in which the performance takes place.

As to Taufiq's original question, performing for fellow magicians is still different from performing for laypeople who see you do magic alot (ie family). Keep in mind that you are ENTERTAINING them, not so much as to 'impress' or 'fool' them.

Maybe you could try Out of This World? Two card monte? or Triumph?
Does it have to be cards? and I'm not sure of your level of proficiency, but Sponge balls have worked very very well for me when performing to laypeople.

BTW, the Biddle trick is an awesome trick. totally impromptu, no angles..:)

:lol: i have to agree with u alot adlan.... less is more....

i dont just do cards (though mostly are :P ) i'd do just about any type of trick thats awesome... i like them all!! :lol:

Good! Always try to diversify!

Don't become an idiot like me and specialize too much, I really have to go back to basics and re-train myself in Magic (as opposed to Mentalism).

But not to perform, you see. Just for my personal satisfaction. Performance-wise, I'm almost exclusively mentalism.

:lol: go for it adlan!! hehehe.. btw... do u have any vids adlan??
i'd like to watch ur performance.. :D

There's one around this forum of Adlan hammering a nail up his nose.. you should see that! Damn sick.. :wacko:

yea i just looked at it yesterday! that was sick man....
r u a mentalist or r u mental? :D

A little bit of both. B)

wei adlan.. remember me?? jamed 2yrs ago at magic ring and MTR together with kam.. and issac.. you just got crazier man.. but your IT is damn good..

Hehe.

I'm not into IT as I used to be. I guess it was a natural progression, from minor PK-ish tricks onto full time Mentalism.

It was bound to happen, I guess.

And I had friends who nudged me in the right direction.

Anywayyyy....don't let this be a thread about me, fellas!

Back to the topic! :)

yeah.. lol.. we should meet up someday though..

i agree with adlans point of view.. try to keep performing to as minimal as possible.. thats why i took that 2 year break form magic.. it somewhat lost it's appeal to my friends and family.. so i just learned new tricks secretly and kept building them up untill i felt like it's time for a small lil debut.. went out to shop showed a friend a simple mind reading trick and left them wanting more.. since than(3weeks) i've never shown them any more..