Just wondering what kind of manipulation routine do you guys do? And if you are not into it, why? If you are trying to go into it, are you experiencing any challenges, if so what are they?

Just trying to see how I can help out.

Magically Yours ... James Tong

James, wat are the best cards for card manipulation? need super thin cards, better rite?

my prob is i cant get/produce the cards out nicely.... sometimes stuck lol... somemore, hand aint big.. thus diff to conceal without exposure.

Cheers,
Brendan

Hello Brendan,

As far as manipulation cards are concerned it varies with individuals. The most important thing to cosider is there must not be any white borders as they will flash. It is hard to conceal the cards 100% - therefore striped red cards such as red back BEE decks would be helpful.

I have purchased and tested quite a few types of manipulation cards (lance burton, norm nielsen, japanese fanning/production, extra thin cards, etc) and not all of them are suitable for me (it does not mean they are not suitable for others).

First thing first - it depends on your routine and the following variables-

1) Are you just producing fans only?
2) Are you producing fans and also single cards?
3) Are you appearing these fans only with your right hand or also with your left hand?
4) Do you want to incoporate card fanning into the routine?
5) Do you want to add in card fountains or flourishes?
6) Do you want to transform a card fan into fire? or to a silk so that you can produce something from it?
7) Do you want your cards to be thrown all over the stage and be trampled by yourself and other (that would destroy the cards)?

There are so many variables to consider in just a 3-5 minutes card manipulation routine and from these variables you may need different types of cards.

example...

1) If you want to be able to produce 5-10 card fans continually, then thin or extra thin cards would help to serve this purpose.

2) If you want to incorporate fanning cards flourishes into the routine and go into single card productions and later on fans productions, then a extra thin dual purpose fanning cards (from Japan) would be suitable.

3) If you want to start the routine with card flourishes and fountains (shooting cards with 2 hands simultaneously) and then move into card productions, then you need a normal averagely good set of playing cards and then use either the red back BEE deck or any manipulation cards sold in magic shops. You use 2 decks of cards in this instance.

As for the size of hands - it does not matter - it is how well you practice the techniques and most importantly finger exercises - any exercise that strengthen the last finger.

Lance Burton, Norm Nielsen and a lot of card manipulators have big hands but they use bridge size cards and not the poker size cards like the BEEs

Tips on strengthening your last fingers -

Wrap a few rubber bands around your fingers and then open and close them many times - like a million times (I'm not joking here). Once you find te rubber bands are not giving you resistence, ADD a few more onto the existing ones and repeat the exercise again until you find absolutely no resistence again and then add more.

You will find that your fingers are also trained for many other manipulation techniques.

Hope this helps :D ... James Tong

Or you can buy the thing at sport shops which usually comes in pairs where u squeeze the thing. Well, taht's basically grip training. I don't really know how effective though coz..........read paragraph below:

To tell you the truth, for me, I don't really train with those stuff, I just keep going at it with the cards..... and go crazy like Tudor, all Bikes. :P I might move to Tally Hos later. I was going Bikes bcoz I do magic tricks as well so I can just pull off the manipulations right after a trick or mix them in something like that. ^_^

Hello Aerox,

Going crazy like Tudor is another way - I do that too but unfortunately there are times our fingers may not be strong enough for certain techniques which is why I recommend the exercise.

Incorporating certain card manipulation moves in close-up performances is totally different as compared to stage shows.

In close-ups Bikes seem to be the favourites among magicians - I use bikes in all my performances for close-ups - but as a professional in magic I practice with other US decks too and also with lots of 'Buatan Malaysia Cards' because you are always caught in impromptu situation where someone gives you a local made cards and challenge you to a performance.

I will take up challenges .. but with a condition - they lose money :D In these kind of situation there are times I get to make more than RM1,000 per night for just a 10 minutes challenge. I don't believe in going cheap where you must do what people ask you to. Good to be a PRO :lol:

Anyway, Aerox, keep up the good work and artisitic spirit - go crazy and you will do better than Tudor. Hope I would be able to see some of your work.

Do you have any videos that you are able to show us? I would love to see them. :D

I'm just starting in basic fans and cuts, but fans still some problem, must be the decks I am using, still trying to get bike's or tally ho's. It's hard to get good decks in Miri. Buying them and when you include shipping, it is quite expensive...

James, what's your recommendation on what should a beginner like me start with in card manipulation? The excercise that you mentioned about the rubber band, that's a good idea...when I am reading I can still do excercise, making full use of our body...hehe.. what type of decks?

bikes rider backs & tally hos..

Or just go ahead with Black Tigers which are shown in Jeff's avatar. :rolleyes:

edit: hmm... using local made cards.... they're smaller and usually bridge size. Even I find those "Poker Size" buatan Malaysia cards are no bigger than Bikes. Anyway, you should get Bikes or Tallys or Tigers or even Ghosts, they all fan and spread way better and the feel of the Air-Cushion/Linoid/UV-500..etc Technologies are great as well.

James: You'll get to see my stuffs in the Collab vid which will be out soon. BTW, where and to whom have you performed? I'd like to hear tales of your performances or experiences. There may be stuffs we can learn from them as you've been a pro for so long. :)

Jeremy,

You'll get plenty of chance to view my performances as I will record my new acts from my new mini magic auditorium.

Cheers ... James Tong

Jeremy,

If you are just doing basic card fans then any decks that are smooth will do.

But if you are into 'Artistic Card Fanning' then a proper colored fanning deck is important as the colors are needed to display certain card fanning moves.

Some of you that popped by my office in Subang Jaya saw some of my fanning techniques and they are also fortunate to witness some of James Tong's original techniques you can never see from any where else.

As for card manipulation (card production) you need a deck that do not have white borders - I prefer red back BEEs. You need to break this deck - soften them so that you can easily back palm them.

Here's how you can soften them - use a rounded pencil and roll each card with it until it becomes a tube. You have to roll from every direction both sides - 8 directions in total for each card. Do that with every card until you complete the whole deck.

After you have done it - you will notice how soft they are and you can easily back palm more than before.

This is how I treat my manipulation cards for my shows.

But if you want to do it for pleasure only then any deck that can be fanned easily would do.

Hope this helps.

Magically Yours ... James Tong

Aerox,

I have performed in so many places and have encountered so many good and tons of bad experiences that I do not know where to start. Where do you want be to start? Give me a hint and I'll take over from there.

James Tong

Thanks for the tips James :)

fans... jerry is awesome at his fans... so is Devo.. and bone's thumb fan and one hand fans i tell u ... u will just go :!!:

u see everything thing.... the spread is just a beauty.

As for choosing cards, i like cards with boarders.... its just so nice and pleasing to the eyes to see cards with boarders moving around in ya handz.

i dont have bees.... but i think they will be great for card sharks and gamblers. :P
Brendan

Brendan,

Anywhere I can get a look at Jerry and Devo's work?

Just to explain my reasoning for selecting those cards I mentioned ...

1) If you are performing close distance to the audience then any smooth deck will do - even with borders - they will look nice.

2) If you are performing some distance away you need colors to demonstrate the beauty of the fans especially when it comes to using different techniques.

There is a big difference in watching card fans being demonstrated with normal cards and uniquely colorful fanning cards. Color changing fans are examples.

I have originated many technical fanning moves and so far have not seen anyone from overseas performing my moves. Those that have seen my routines have testified I have brought life back to card fanning work.

I'm trying to get my hands on a good video camera to capture my manipulation routines. That way you guys will know what I am trying to say. Once I have done that I'll announce to MMF where you guys can download them.

I will have my performances and routines video taped from my own mini magic auditorium. That way I get to enjoy my work passionately.

There's nothing wrong with what you guys are doing but there is a very big difference between working out the moves for personal viewing and performing for the public and yet command a high price for each show. The market won't pay big bucks unless one's performance is superb with moves that will blow out the audience's eyeballs.

For a sophisticated and up-market audience I will do those type of acts because they appreciate art. But for average audience the element of 'magic' must be there.

Just trying to share my views.

James,
For Devo and Jerry's stuff,

visit
www.superhandz.com

and

www.flourishman.com

and also check out

www.ellusionist.com (check out the Xtreme Begineerz DVD by Jerry and Devo)

and also check out

www.dananddave.com (the buck twins - my fav)

Cheers!
Brendan

Thanks Brendan, I'll check it out asap.

No worries mate.

Do let me know what you think abt theri skills and flourish styles yeah :P

Cheers!
Brendan

also dont forget to check these out.. ;)

http://209.58.251.58/movies/products/7315a.wmv

or

http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=938

and

the 'spring jam' by the bucks

and

http://www.superhandz.com/videos.html

yeah... Brian Tudor........ RESPECT!

He's only 23????? he looks much much older than that. lol...

sigh.. i wish i had handz like his.

oh well,
Brendan

yeah.. i was so shocked when he said 'i'm 23'..
this is kinda off topic but how old is devo.. jerry n bucks?
jerry looks damn old in xb. when he teach the armspread catch he looks like his back hurts after catching the cards.. lol..

hehe yeah.. he sure does look much older. lost lots of weight too. if not mistaken i think he was going thru some surgery or something a while ago. i read it in the superhandz/handlordz forum. everyone was praying for his recovery that time. Im glad he is back on his feet and still flourishing like crazy. Well.. the is the flourishman! Respect!

ok.. lol Back to the topic <_<

From the threads I have been reading, looks like you guys are more into cards (especially in flourishes) and close-ups.

I'm currently doing a research into the magic trend, magic skills, different interest levels, hobby status vs semi-pros vs going pros interest, close up interest vs stage/platform magic, etc

I would appreciate if you guys can help out my research. There will be lots of benefits you guys can get out of my research.

I'm currently talking to semi-pros , pros and magic dealers from all over the world to drop by and participate in a 3-days Magic Convention I am organising in Malaysia. There will be tons of guest artists and also there will also be competitions - close-ups, flourishes, manipulation, illusions and stage magic. There will also be a 3-day magic dealers events where they get to promote their latest stuffs.

The prizes will be so attractive that winners will not only get global publicity but also handsome contracts for perfrmances (high-pay performance contracts). I am already talking to big companies for cash and kind sponsorships for the prizes.

This is the first of its kind in Malaysia.

Its a 3 days event and you guys wll have to take medical leave to attend - :D and after that these overseas magiciansand dealers will be invited by me to stay back as I will be their host - taking them around the country. That means they will be spending more time over here.

:!!: :!!: Imagine Brian Tudor is having teh tarik with you guys :!!: :!!:

Hope you guys can help out in my research.

QUESTIONS:

1) If you are the winner - what kind of prizes would you hope to receive?

2) Who do you want to see (from overseas) performing in Malaysia?

3) Which dealers do you hope to see participating over here?

NOTE: Any suggestions will be welcome

lol.. i cant imagine if anyone of those (devo, jerry, bucks, tudor) really come to msia. i seriously think they wont..

1. if im the winner i would like to have USD500 (too little?) of gift certificate for Ellusionist or PenguinMagic. maybe more than that..

2. those above-mentioned..

3. Ellusionist n PenguinMagic..

Hello Jeff,

Everything comes down to business. If you give them a good deal they cannot resist then they would consider.

Beside being a pro-magician, I am also a marketing consultant for big corporations - there are ways to get people to move your way. Of course $$$$$ offers is the first thing and then give them what they want - perhaps a good fully paid holiday for them and their love ones here for a week - how about living like a king with their family for a week? :!!: I can get sponsors to fund their stay here.

Anyway, Jeff thanks for your input and I'll take note of it.

I'd like to add another guy for question 2: Gregory Wilson. Damn, that guy rocks. Magic and Flourish combo master. My no.1 Idol.

Aerox,

Thanks for your input.

Guys, I'll take note of all suggestions. Would really appreciate your inputs.

Hahahahaha James!!!! Having a teh tarik with Brian Tudor!!! I swear I really laughed my butt off reading that! Imagine if it was true... lol... :D

What you're currently planning is awesome, James. I'll think of a way to contribute! ;)

Btw, how do you guys know that he's 23?

LOL.. then i bet you 'll have a good time jamming with him. :!!:

Hello Kamil,

Thanks for the offer in contributing in this project.

I'm dead serious in making this magic convention a success and memorable.

This is not the first time I'm doing something for the magic fraternity in Malaysia. Magic is in my blood and I'll try my best to do everything possible for the magicians in Malaysia or perhaps South-East Asia.

To make it memorable I'll leave no stone unturned to ensure -

1) Good performers (close-up, flourishes, manipulation, etc) can come over.
2) Renown dealers can come over to participate
3) Local magicians get to have intl publicity and exposure

.... and most importantly the local guys can jam with these pros for a few days.

One thing to note is that this task is gigantic and I know that a lot of groundwork has to be covered and of course going through all kind of 'red tapes' to get the necessary licenses.

I truly welcome all the help, suggestions and support in order to make this event a success

I can't promise you guys about Brian Tudor, Gregory Wilson, Devo, Jerry & Bucks coming over but I'll do my best persuading them - and in order for them to come over we have to compromise with their schedules. That is why I do not have any dates for this event yet. In fact I have been working on this since 6 months ago.

Thanks guys :D

he introduces himself in the new gen x..

i will hug tudor n kiss him if he comes. im serious.. B)

James,

Good luck and wish u all the best. Please let me know if we can assist in any way.
I'm sure we'll have lotsa volunteers.

1) what kinda prizes I'll wish to win ? all expense paid trip to a magic convention somewhere ( US, UK, etc etc) or Visit to Magic Castle.

2) Banachek. Max Maven, Osterlind (I know wrong topic, sorry), Mcbride, Sankey, Daryl Martinez.

3) anyone, the more the merrier. Maxello Magic :D, L&L publishing.
Murphy's Magic.

Jeff,

It'll be fun taking a photo of you kissin him - n the photo will be a collector's item then :rolleyes:

Hello Rainking,

I really appreciate your offer to help out. This is a massive project and lots of people are needed to pull it off successfully. I'll announce in MMF what is needed in due time.

As for the answers you gave for the questions - I have noted them down - thanks.

QUESTIONS:

1) If you are the winner - what kind of prizes would you hope to receive?
- I'd love to have all the good quality collectable cards in the world, not really the vintage ones but those magicians collect. id surely love to have loads of Jerrys, Golden nuggets, all types of bicycle and many more rare collectable magician/flourisher playing cards in the world. :) Id love to built up a room of playing cards just like Jerry. Also have some decks signed by the word greatests cardicians! Have signed posters of BTD, VIPERS, GHOST DECKS... well.. too many.. just anything to do with cards... really lol



2) Who do you want to see (from overseas) performing in Malaysia?
- I'd love to have Brian Tudor here in Msia, Dan and Dave and Jerry and Devo.
- But on the serious note i think the more possible ones and great ones that more like to travel are Lee Asher (already coming to Spore 1 Oct), Daryl Martinez, Greg Wilson, the funny Bill Malone and er..... hmmm some from the undergroundz.

Love to take pics with all of them!

3) Which dealers do you hope to see participating over here?
- Anyone man, as long as we get good materials with a low price guaranteed :P

Hopefully my dream above comes true haha
Brendan

Hello Brendan,

Thanks for the input and Ill try my best to make your dreams (at least partially) come true. No promises but I'll do my best.

Thanks again

hmm... i was kinda headache, y all discusses only CARDS when talk abt manipulation??
how bout other stuff like :
enhance a ball routine so it doesnt look like another ball routine
ermmm
sumting like tat la...
does any one do cigratte manipulation?
i`ve mastered both tounging and reverse tounging...
but wat else can be done with it besides vanishhing and production?
or maybe should i ask wat other ways to use it in any way?

lol.. because we love CARDS. i dont like cigs n balls.. :wacko:

yeah james.. i would also like to have few cases of tigers, vipers, n ghosts decks if im the winner.. they can be found in ellusionist.com..

FYI guys I am making a deal with ellusionist.com for bulk purchase of tigers, vipers, ghost decks, etc. Still doing the deal thing with them.

So when these stocks arrive - then guys participate and win in the Convention contest. You guys :wub: those cards, right?

Hello EuGie,

I am open to all kind of manipulation topics but it seems that the guys here are card lovers.

You can always discuss with me on balls, cigarettes, etc. Just start the thread and I'll folow through with tips needed. Just pm me with private issues.

Magically yours ... James Tong