Hi, fellow card magicians…

I have some questions that I would like to ask all of you as it keeps on bothering me since 6 months ago. Hope you guys can help me up.

As a card magician, no doubt you practice any kind of sleights-of-hand you like every now and then. Since you love cards but why you (I don’t mean all of you) don’t do card flourishes? Or some card magicians don’t even like them? Are they a waste of time to you?

Please let me know what you think. Thank you and have a nice day everyone!

Cheers,
Jeff

Interesting Question....

Like to hear from those magicians that dont practice flourishes...

- Is it coz it takes up too much practice time?
- Too difficult to learn?
- Find flourishes boring?

Looking forward to hear from you guys :)

Cheers!
Brendan

hehehe.. ;)

OK...imagine you don't do magic...and you are playing poker with some strangers,
All of a sudden, the dealer does some amazing fluorishes..shows he is really great at handling cards, and then proceeds to deal the cards to you...

what is your reaction?

1) you watch the dealer's hands more closely to see if he is doing anything "funny" while he deals. Be on guard.
2) say "wow" and continue as though nothing happened.

I don't know about you but I would answer (1).

Fluorishes are good. It gives a touch a professionalism. It beautifies the presentation. But it also raises "alarm bells" before the trick even starts.

But with the limited time i have to practice, and if i can only choose one thing to be good at, I prefer to be good at sleights than fluorishes. That and I find it tiresome to keep picking up cards from the floor :P

You may however say " he's just lazy". In this sense, I probably am.

Just my 2 cents. Feel free to disagree. :)

Apparently, this question can also be reversed to the flourish people: Why do some of you focus so much on flourish and less time on magic?

I guess the middle answer is the spur of the moment; the heat in which you find yourself more attracted to. At the moment, I've been flourishing like a maniac, like George Bush when he sees oil, and lately some days have gone by without me doing Elmsley or Side Steal. This is what I currently do because it's what I'd like to focus on FOR NOW, so I guess it's a matter of dividing up your schedule of practice. One way or another, magicians will start flourishing and vice versa. Or at least that's one way to look at it

Rainking, u have a point there....

But wouldnt a flourisher is be naturally good or at least better than ave. at sleight of hand? i dunno, so far i havent seen any flourisher that really sux with Sleights.

Sleights such DL,Glide, pass, D. undercut, one hand pass etc... its all abt card control. Flourish is similar but in a more flashy way.

I personally feel that after i started practicing flourish... my sleights also tend to improve. that's how i feel. :P Maybe coz i do practice my sleights too during my flourish practices. ;)

What do other's think?

Cheers!
Brendan

oH... i forgot to mention that most flourishers i know started off with card magic. Flourish comes in only after they've learnt some card magic. V few i know start with flourish straight away.

I guess its always cool to know how to do a some card tricks. Because naturally once u flourish with skillz people would go wow.. and naturally would ask... can u do card magic?

;) ,
Brendan

Hi guys,

Firstly, I am now posting here is not attacking anyone of you. Just my humble feedback. ;)

Well, for me, I believe in just 1 form. That means if you want to focus on entertainment and really love magic, then for me, I totally focusing on magic. Though I also practise flourish but my flourish is extremely bad. SOmetimes, when I practise and keep on dropping the cards, I don't force myself keep on practising the things that fail at the moment, I will maybe tomorrow practise flourish again. ^_^

Sometimes, I believe if a person like "Jack of all trades", you will not efficient in your magic. For example, that person want to learn stage, close-up, big illusion stuffs, escapes, fire magic, dove production, levitation, cards, mental, etc.......... wow, the lists still go on, I don't think for me personally that this person is an "Efficient magician". Every human in this world has "WEAKNESSES", not every human in this world is perfect.

Because time is so short for us in our daily life, I still think that specialise at your specialty is the best coz you will be more efficient what you are doing rather than you want to learn everything before you efficient in a special area first.

My 2 cents! ^_^

Andrew

thanks for all the replies people..

Rainking, i like this.. 'Fluorishes are good. It gives a touch a professionalism. It beautifies the presentation.' also, i think u have a good point there about 'alarm bell'. but what brendan meant is that we dont really see anyone who do card flourishes that dont/cant do card magic :rolleyes: right?

Kam, good question. 'Why do some of you focus so much on flourish and less time on magic?' once again, like brendan said, most of the flourisher r kinda 'good' at sleights i suppose.. notice i said 'i suppose' here.. doesnt apply to all. im not sure..

Andrew Loh, yes n i agree with u we r not perfect. we cant learn stage, close-up, big illusion stuffs, escapes, fire magic, dove production, levitation, cards, mental, etc at the same time as time flies. BUT i was asking about 'Card Magic And Card Flourishes'.. they are only cards, nothing to do ciggs or balls. so do u mean we must be a very good card magician before we wanna learn card flourishes? or vise versa?? :rolleyes:
[Well, for me, I believe in just 1 form. That means if you want to focus on entertainment and really love magic, then for me, I totally focusing on magic. Though I also practise flourish but my flourish is extremely bad. SOmetimes, when I practise and keep on dropping the cards, I don't force myself keep on practising the things that fail at the moment, I will maybe tomorrow practise flourish again. ]
i would like to know that when u cant do a sleight, u would keep trying to perfect it right? but when u cant do a cuts then why cant u keep picking up the cards n keep on practising? so do u think magic is far more entertainment than flourishes? i just wanna know what u think.. thanks :)

Brendan, i think our thoughts r similar.. :)

cheers,
jeff

woah.. Jeff... lol... "just like Brendan said....." :rolleyes:

Anyway, for me... im 98% cards.... and planning to specialize in watever has to do with cards... cards collection, card magic or card flourish... at the moment, card flourish is my main interest. I only perform magic when i have the oppurtunity or at parties.

Ask me to do coin magic.. i can only show u a french drop and a coin production. lol.. oh.. i flourish with coins too... coin roll yeah lol.... that's it for coins. Muscle pass... i practiced till my palm swell... still have not gotten it.

Rubberbands... i can do a few..... :P

Sponge balls.. never played with it... man that's hard to beleive right lol.

Ropes... forgotten already... haha

So yeah.. me more a cardician than anything else. So yeah that's where i plan to specialise in be it with magic or flourish.

Cheers!
Brendan

Hi Jeff,

Yes, I should admit that flourish it's very nice especially if you incorporate in card magic with your dexterity. ^_^

What I meant was that, it's better for a person to really practise magic, perfect his routines and moves, or remember the steps, if something he learns complete and can do quite a number of effects steadily, then I should say you may go to learn flourish.

I consider card magic and flourish, both are different schools. Card magic is concerning about the secret while flourish is the skills. Laymen would not really impress or may impress what you do about flourish. For magicians view, they would impress. ^_^

Card magic is a lot of things to take control, for instance, before you learn a card magic, you have to really dwelve into understanding the routines. I am sure some of the card magic maybe not suits you, if you force yourself to learn it without changing to your own style, you would be in trouble. ^_^

The next step of learning card magic is you have to polish your sleights and the next would be the patter and presentation of how to connect to the audience.

Generally speaking, as you can see, learning a card magic or anything about magic is not an easy tasks, not just learn and perform. You have to understand them the effects and the moves incorporated in the effect. Also involve a lot of thinking here. ;)

Well, for flourish and I think I should not elaborate more in that as I am not an expert in flourish but would like to just contribute some of my humble thought on it, flourish is that you have to learn and practise day after day until it becomes second nature to you, even you may close your eyes and flourish the cards along. ^_^

That's why I consider card magic and flourish, both are different school. ;)

what i meant was when the spectator doesnt see any fancy moves, it makes the effect hit harder. they dont have any explanations and cannot attribute it to fast hands because your hands was not moving fast in the first place. They are also less prone to stare at your hands when you are trying to misd****t.

A good example is Michael Ammar. Simple movements (almost slow motion) then the effect hits and you go "where did that come from?" That's my preferred approach anyway. Newbies like myself tend to go fast to cover for our shortfalls or nervousness. I need to work on being more relaxed.

I once discussed with another MMF member about this magician we saw who was really good, but he moved real fast. The impact of the effect was lost a bit in the speed and the flurry of movements.

I think fluorish has its place and imprtance, but to be used in small quantities. where to use depends on your own style.

I believe Jeff is actually asking "Why don't you card magicians do XCM?"

So obviously, the answers are:
"Coz it's not easy."
"Coz I don't have time."
"Coz I think it isn't meant for me."

Jeff, XCM are HARD card flourishes. Easier little things like piroutte, card flicking and even the mexican turnover(if u modify it enuff *hint hint) are also flourishes. I dont think there are really card magicians who do not do flourishes except unless their card handling repertoire are small (aka beginner or only mentalism or doing only self working card tricks which doesn't properly count as a card magician).

Definitely misconceptions and misunderstandings you guys have here which bends the thread from understanding what Jeff is really asking. No offense, guys. Quite a repeat of stuffs which have been discussed from different forums that I see here which will one day lead to the point that I am saying. Sorry for spoiling the future. :P

I think that basically summarizes it.

but i have one more to add

"its not absolutely necessary"

no offence to you card fluorishers out there but magic is so much more than just only cards to me. I'm crazily into spoon bending at the moment :D

i agree it's not necessary if you do magic..
it depends whether you want to impress ppl with magic, where a card changes into another or sth like that, or with fancy cuts & fans.

i would learn certain fancy cuts to enhance the trick, but not as an art of its own....but that's coz i'm inclined towards astonishing ppl with magic rather than flourish.

actually i can think of quite a few great close-up card guys who don't fluorish much or at all.

this is an well thought out article by a semi pro magician which leans towards the pro-fluorisher side.
thought i'd share it here.

http://www.online-visions.com/mymagic/0312-2mm.html

Rainking,

thank you for the link.. :) i get the answers for my questions. thank you very much..

and i like this article very much. now i have some solid reasons for me to keep on flourishing..

[Flourishes are more than showing-off to your audience. They are proof of one's dedication and professionalism as a performer. Flourishes are what may separate you from your uncle Joe doing a card trick. The more skilled performer will naturally receive more credit, recognition, and respect for his or her skills. A person sees the entertainer who performs the occasional flourish as being passionate about what he or she does and may be more apt to hire someone who is that professional. Your clients expect a magician with skill and experience.]

thank you once again.. :) have a nice day!

cheers,
jeff

hehe... interesting :)

Thanks for the article Rainking. :)...

Cheers!
Brendan

very informative link :D

Hi folks,


Have been searching around half a day and dusted off my bookshelf with my magic books and finally found out a book with interesting quotes about flourish and extracted the quotes from a master, his name is Alex Elmsley.


In 1949, Mr. Elmsley summarised his opinion on the flourish subject with these words:


"About the advisability of using flourish in a presentation of card magic, there are at least two points of view. Manipulators, in any case, may use them without a qualm. It is my view that audience like to see a little obvious skills, and if this can be demonstrated with grace, then so much the better."


Forty-four years have passed since these comments were published. Today he adds this further thought:


Flourishes are a matter of style and personality. For me to make rules to govern another's style would be impudence."


Best,
Andrew Loh