I am planning to conduct a magic course as an activity for my club. However, I am seriously worried that I might reveal too much to the laypeople attending this course. I am still trying to figure out how much, and what I should include in the magic course.

Proposed Plan
First Part
- Introduction to magic and its history.
- Categories of magic
- Ethics of a magician
(*This is to increase the awareness in the laymen on the importance of the closely guarded secrets of magic.)

Second Part (Card Magic)
- Introduction to card sleights
- Overview of basic sleights
- Performance tips

Third Part (Coin Magic)
- Introduction to coin sleights
- Overview of basic sleights
- Performance tips

Fourth Part (Performance)
- Psychology and patter
- Personality forming
- Performance video previews

I basically need an idea of how much to charge per person for each of the parts. My plan is to make it in such a way that they need to go through each part to proceed to the next. These four parts are the really basic ones and does not cover more advanced levels of magic such as mentalism, gimmicks, or any other secrets. Whoever makes it through all four parts of the course will be entitled to go further into learning the advanced art of magic. This is to encourage curious laypeople to drop out before any secret is revealed. Gimme your suggestions. Thanks.

my suggestion is to read "Magic For Dummies" or "Idiots Guide to Magic".

that should give you an idea of what to have in a basic (by basic i mean nothing that would reveal the more advanced stuff) course.

sorry i can't say anything about fees and such. saya tak pandailah. hehe.

Hmm..just some input...
At the magic club i'm attending here...they divide the members into sections. So members who have showed interest and actually practised are upgraded and will be taught new sleights. So the members must master & perform the trick/sleight that they were previously taught before they were taught a new sleight.

Fairly new members are shown some basically self working trick with patter, like a key card location trick...

a whole lot of stuff for beginners can be found in Mark Wilson's complete course in magic. Like baalan said, the idiots and dummies books are great too.

Do you think the parts in my course is acceptable?

Eryanic, this is just the first part of the course. This is for me to identify the laymen from experienced magicians.

I am thinking of a fee of RM50.00 for this course.

err..thats a little too cheap for a 4 part course, aint it?

you can hardly buy a dover book for that price (at least one which covers cards to coins).
Its hard to weed out the future hecklers from the serious guys at that price. Thats just my opinion. Plus, please do give consideration to your syllabus when considering your price.

thanks.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. It IS kinda cheap. But then again, what is being covered in the course is very very basic as i will focus more on the theories of magic. The sleights I plan to teach are also very basic such as the palming the coins and cards, double lifts, shuffles and cuts.

If you were an experienced magician, making it too expensive would sound dumb too. Would you pay RM100.00 to learn these basic sleights?

What do you think?

In Indonesia, there's this shop that teaches 2 card tricks, a spoon bending, a rubber trick, and a cups and balls tricks, and they priced it equivalent to RM100. Go figure. Not that I condone this kinda practice, but I'm just giving you a sketch. Another magic school only teaches 2 sleights in a month, but they give you opportunity and guidance to learn on your own. The cost is around RM200.

Wow... I dont feel so guilty already... lol... I wonder how many serious magicians are there in my campus. Anyway, here is the strategy. I will do a free video show showing THEM, Criss Angel and so on, then after that, I will open the registration for the magic course.

Its a four part course. Two parts per week. Duration would be two hours per week.

But you're doing it at a uni where everyone is trying to save money especially from the uni itself. ;)

So, I suggest to cut down on the price. I'll say the price should go for around RM50-RM75. And these prices still aren't considered cheap for so few things learnt.

Therefore, I suggest to also teach a few different effects using those few sleights.

We will cover basic card sleights and I will drop the price to RM50.00. This price includes their membership fee. As they advance, we will collect more money to aid in buying DVDs (which would be cool for me too..). I think this will be better and we will include a few tricks for the first session...
The proposed plan goes like this:

Basic Knowledge:
Mechanics Grip
Biddle Grip
Shuffling
Cutting

Sleights:
False Cuts and Shuffles
Changes
Passes
Forces
False Counts
Breaks
Palming

Tricks:
Biddle Trick
Jeff's Twice as Nice

Any more suggestions for simple tricks?


Aerox: Jeff would be teaching some sleights. Wanna join us?

IMO, if the people ur gonna teach are total beginners who don't have a clue about sleights and such, it might be better to start off with great looking but self working effects. They might be a bit confused with sleights, no matter how simple.

mindfreak,

Passes...basic?? changes ?? palms?
i don't know man... :unsure:

Yeah..
that got me thinking too...
perhaps I'll stick to the really basics and assume that they have never handled or perform card magic...

I just came up with another thing in mind...

Level 1:
Grip techniques
Basic shuffles and cuts
False Cuts and False Shuffles
Breaks: Types and how to use them

Level 2:
Palming
False Counts

Level 3:
Forces
Secret Lifts


What do u think?

as mention by eryanic, this is a good idea. Seperate them into groups and then let them learn through each other. Teach them a move first of course

most laymen just join for the sake of knowing how the tricks works and catch other magicians doing it, but by dividing them into groups and let them pratice and perfect a move first or and then let them proceeed to advanced is the best.

Do some kind of test first before letting them join in the class? I really dislike those ppl who know how trick works and catch u in the act? that's what they are -NOOBS-

For fees, I do believe more than RM 50 is the best, then those who are really interested will join. If you charge too low, there will noobs joining and creating havoc.

Raising the quality of magic in Malaysia in very much important, as in Malaysia it is not so advanced yet. If you want to create or start any classes, I guess you must be first put importance in the quality. It all depends on those who are taking the classes whether they are serious in magic or not, some just do it for fun and don care about any quality. Don't want some idiot do balducci levitation and got caught and spoiled it....The point here is to seperate the serious and the spoilers.

:D :D :D

gotta disagree there. not noobs. noobs are just beginners, but as long as they are sincere in wanting to learn to perform.

what i cannot stand is hecklers. wise guys. mister know it alls (whoa, sounds a whole lot like me...) :P

hehe...as long as they are sincere, I don't mind teaching them at all......but HECKLERS...haha...*no words to describe them* LOL :angry: :angry: :ph43r: :ph43r: :angry:

I would actually put palming in a more advanced level than false counts and forcing..
and forcing a level lower than false counts

As for types of sleights taught in diff levels, i think it's good to refer to the Card College series. Just look at the index online, coz they teach in order from easier stuff to more difficult stuff.

Just a thought, that perhaps start off with key card location, glimpse, pinky/thumb break....and then move on the card controls (how to control card to top, bottom..etc). Only then start with sleights such as false counts, false cuts, palm, lifts

mind freak> whats the purpose of conducting such a activity, ie: teaching magic??
If you want to introduce it to other ppl and not be worried about exposure and still make a bit of a living out if, perhaps you could perform?

If one really wants to learn about 'magic'...their efforts will bring them there..all they should ever receive is guidance along the way..not flat out spoon feeding...

Thanks for your feedback...

Djsky: My psychology works in a way that the purpose of opening this circle is to invite hecklers to join. Out there, most of them are just failed magicians who happen to know the secrets of the trade and wish to make themselves someone. They do not wish to spoil the art of magic but the magicians. They exist to vandalise the lives of magicians. By teaching them the honor and proper ethics of magic (which will be covered), they will learn to respect the art. I have faced many hecklers who were willing to co-operate after I reminded them of the purpose of magic. Some have a pretty good knowledge of sleights but no one to teach and no where to go. The BIG problem with them is that they always FORGET that the art of magic is and for ENTERTAINMENT purposes. By reminding them that if they wanna see their friends entertained, they just gotta learn to shut up, they will.

Eryanic: I will look into the indexes in Card College. Thanks for info.

Damon: I am not doing for personal gains. I happen to preside a club and I wish to introduce magic as part of the activity. It was also by request of the students in the campus so I am looking at this as a great opportunity to bring it into my uni community. When I perform in my uni, I expect these people to support and not be low life hecklers.

My purpose is to first implant the thought of respect for the art and its ethics, then strengthen foundations by teaching the real basic sleights.

I will continue work on the details of a good course.

:D very good then...thumbs up from me for your effort. :D :D :D

Ok here it goes. This is to introduce members into the Magic Circle first. They must go through each levels first. On the 3rd and 4th Level, they will already be admitted into the Magic Circle and will be able to learn and discuss openly on various details. Then they will be brought to learn the other areas of magic.

However, they will either have to learn level 1 and 2 or go through an initiation test to get to Level 3.


Level 1 (Apprentice)
-----------------------
- Tools of Card Magic
- Various grips
- Shuffles: Riffle, Hindu, Overhand
- False Cuts
- Spread Cull
- Card Controls
- Forces
- 2 Tricks Covering Level 1


Level 2 (Neophyte)
----------------------
- Note on Presentation
- Psychology and Patter
- Introduction to flourishes
- Jeff teaches basic flourishes


Level 3 (Ordinary Member)
-------------------------------
- Making a routine
- Misdirection
- The Glimpse
- Palming
- False Counts
- Biddle Steal
- Breaks: Pinky, Thumb, Flesh
- Colour Changes
- Quick Tricks


Level 4 (Advanced Member)
--------------------------------
- Special Setups: Marking decks, stacking
- Intro to other parts of magic


*I referred to Card College's Index, Expert Card Techniques, and Daryl's ECS to come up with this list. Jeff has been real cool and was ready to help me in this course to jumpstart the Circle.

IMHO, forces is one of the craziest and most unbelievable utilities out there... the sleight is easy, but the impact when put into a routine hits hard.

I agree...

IMO,
using forces differentiates a magician from a layperson...
not using forces differentiates a magician from a magician...

though it's a good step to start magic in your uni, but if things are not planned properly and doesn't turn out well, secrets may be destroyed.
You don't want to perform to someone and only for them to know how it's done because someone else performed to them before and screwed up.

how does not forces differenciate between magicians?
erm...spread cull.....a bit advanced dont you think?

mindfreak> hope you know what you're doing, best of luck...here are a few suggestions...

perhaps, instead of teaching them the varrying tools, give them some of one-off tricks;

shapeshifter
snap change
erdnase color changes

these moves are fairly knacky.....and will show which ppl are actually commited enough to learning them....and if they give up on these..at least they don't know the "secrets"...(look below)

controls and forces are IMO...quite a big chunk of our arsenal to simply be given out. It's mere existance should be hidden under big trees and clouds six feet underground..anyway....

Otherwise..try not to introduce too many sleights at once and too fast..they'll probably try it all and give up.and before you know it..these ppl know all about forces and controls....the essence of card tricks.

Let them learn it the hard way...so that who are really interested will learn....and those hecklers to be--will go away..

thats how I started..it wasn't easy....but it made me appreciate it more..

yeah actually dam0n has a point here,
if one is really interested in magic, their effort should be strong enough to lead them to learning stuff from the right source. It's like most of u guys, i'm sure u guys started off by yourself..really interested in magic, surfed the net or go to library borrow some magic book....bought some stuff online, searched for forums..etc

but of course it is good to have a 'fellowship' of magicians in an area, hence starting a club, like what u're doing.
But instead of starting a 'course' where you accept students and teach, i would think a 'club' where people who are interested joins and chill out is better. There you can teach people according to what they already know.

Basically, it's the idea of making magic so accessible via the course that is somehow 'disturbing' (i have limited vocab, sorry :P) where any Tom & Dick can just join. But arguably, maybe any random Tom & Dick will not pay RM50 to join?

Anyway, what do i know about creating a club or conducting a course, right?
Just my 0.02 rupiah

PS : Culling is indeed not quite a beginner's sleight IMHO, though I know that it was taught in volume 1 of card college (first few chapters some more if i'm not mistaken!).

Yeah...
Ok then..
Spread cull will not be taught. RM50.00 fixed price. 15-20 members would be just the ideal size for the club. Too many and bad things would start happening. People start levitating, buildings start dissappearing...

lol...

It would seem like a bore in the beginning. A good way to let the ones not interested fade away. Hopefully all turns out well. Once a week jam would be cool.

Yes, learning the hard way is the way to go....

u can just give it all freely to newbies....

let them do the researching and homework. Im sure they will appreciate magic more like that.

If u just dump everything to them.. they'll just be lost and might end up doing the wrong things, wrong direction, and become less passionate.

Learning magic.. there's a price to pay and ... nothin comes cheap.

Cheers!
Brendan

Very very terrible arrangement. For such an arrangement, I'd say put it at a higher price at RM100 for the exclusivity. I rather you guys not teach if you guys arrange it this way and without thinking at all. Too many sht exposed in the first/second level or rearrange the whole thing. You have to think that there are people who can pay to "Let's just see what course this is." & "Oh I know how to do that." And it seems you're using the exposure of at least 60-80% of the field of card magic to attract people which is a $^#%@*$# no-no. You must think, there will also be people who will quit magic. Would you want them heckling mentioning to their frens who are your audience that your card is on top? -_-

Stacks are not really advanced until the more complicated mathematical ones.

Level 1 (0 Exposures)
-----------------------
- Note on Presentation
- Psychology and Patter

- Various grips
- Shuffles: Riffle, Hindu, Overhand
- Non-False Cuts
- Stacks
- Crimps
- Marks
- Glimpses
- Palming (if you want or keep for lv2)

- Introduction to flourishes
- Jeff teaches basic flourishes
- Lots of FXs using those few techniques. -There's a lot of nice tricks using stacks.
- Preview of next session effects or flourishes.

Level 2 (Neophyte)
----------------------
- Making a routine
- Misdirection
- Quick Tricks

- Magician's Force (No classic force or sht, if you dunno what this is, I recommend don't teach forces at all.)
- Shuffle Controls
- False Cuts
- Glide
- Breaks: Pinky, Thumb, Flesh
- Shapeshifter (Master this you kids before we let you in!)

- More Flourishes
- Filled with effects using what we learnt today - .
- Preview of next session effects or flourishes. - Get ready for ambitious next week!

Level 3 (Ordinary Member)
-------------------------------

- Double Lifts
- Other Forces
- False Counts
- Biddle Steal
- Snap Change
- Spread Cull
- Whatever you want

- More Flourishes
- Filled with effects using what we learnt today
- Preview of next session effects or flourishes.

This is the somewhat better outline. I'd charge RM75. RM50 too cheap for so much in card magic(WTH are you guys thinking with the previous list?).

Flourishes sections: Charlier, Springs, Waterfalls, Fans, Backpalm & Production, Piroutte, etc....

I guess I have no #^$#@&*$ choice but to help construct this and join ur crew, this is a draft at the moment. Oh man, I'd kill you guys if u use the previous arrangement. :angry:

edit: edited curses...... in anyways, there's only 2 occurences of curses aka already eased up. -_-

ease up on the curses (altho cencored), dude.
we got minors in here...

I say learning from u guys at that price is a steal. honestly.
You're basically covering enough ground to last a few weeks of coaching...with skills ranging from beginner to intermediate...

I dunno, but I were u, I'd charge way waaaaaaaay more. But thats just me.

best o' luck.

Cool...Welcome to the team Aerox...lol

After speaking to Rainking (He took the liberty to call me all the way from KL to give some suggestions! Respects to that!), I have decided to charge along the way. Meaning, they pay a certain fee for the first part, then if they wish to learn further, they gotta pay more. This method would definitely be much more advisable.

So for the first round, they would pay RM100.00 plus a Bike. Then, it starts from there. RM50.00 to advance....

i need some pocket $.. :(

haha.. joe is really cool with this idea. i will help him up as much as i can.. ^_^

mindfreak...sometimes we get caught in the excitement to teach and get others involved in magic...its a nice feeling when people are asking you questions and look to you as a role model.and in this case..magic.....

perhaps the 'open' nature of this course isn't the best way to go?

I have been giving a real hard thought about this and I think I gotta sit with the rest of them and really discuss what will happen. Too many things happening and exams are coming up so I will cool it for the time being...

yes, magic is not meant to be an open thing where anyone can just learn it.

I think it should only be taught to those that really have the passion for the art and not some rich guy who just wanna know the secrets of magic.

Yes, make them pay to learn magic...more if possible :)... lol.. i wish u and ya club well.

Hopefully u guys can train up some good students for magic. One day Miri will have lots of good magicians... good thing for Msia i guess :)

you students.. so shiok.. how i wish my uni had a magic club when i was still studying... all the best!

Cheers!
Brendan

Teach a trick in conjunction to a sleight. Based on my experience, there really is no point showing ten sleights when all the students, if they are lucky, can remember only one at the end of the day. Also, with no trick to go along with it, to them it just ends up as impractical knowledge (exposure?).

I witnessed a friend once who actually "taught" a couple of people in my entertainment club on several coin sleights. I called it "exposure" because it was more like showing off how clever he was in performing the sleights. NO ONE in the room even took out a coin and bothered to try!

So really, have a practical use for what you are about to teach. If not, don't!

Andersonchow,

A gem of an advise.
Thank you very much.

Thanks for your feedback. Right now, everything is under control. We basically understand and have gone through a lengthy process to come up with a foolproof and easy to understand course. Thanks once again for your feedback and comments.