I'm bringing this up as it seems to be a good topic for a discussion.
Let's have a healthy debate, and remember everyone is entitled to their opinion, keep it friendly.
The gist of the discussion is below :-

Tenkaikool's original post.

Personally I don’t really like people asking to see magic like this, “Hey, show me some tricks…” I rather they say, “Show me some magic.” … but that’s what they call it and we have to respect them and can’t change it. It doesn’t bother me at all because at the end we still amaze them. ^_^

err...personally, I use the word effect when performing or speaking to spectators, trick when talking to other magicians (this mostly applies to close up stuff)

Some magicians feel using the term trick degrades the effect. I kinda agree with this sentiment. But i use trick for the practicality of it.

Illusions, i normally associate with big, stage stuff.

Thats just my personal take on this.

I am still prefer the word "Magic" over than tricks. For me the word "Tricks" always tell me it's like deceiving!

Andrew

and when I do mentalism, I'll use the word "experiment" or "demonstration" in my patter instead.

i didnt really tell them anything about illusion/magic/trick.. i just do it...

"I'm gonna show u this illusion, see this 2 card?"

"see, this two card..."

which better?? i prefer the last one...

Neither bothers me. We as magicians know that we're not presenting "trick" in the negative and puzzling sense, but rather "magical". I don't think laymen cares about either phrasing

same here. i don't mind any of those words.

i say it's phychic power...
it's odd for me to say: do you wanna see an illusion/trick?
before you do the effect the spectator know it's fake...you are less likely to get huge reactions...

I plan on using "It's a miracle! Weeeee!". So far, don't have the right conditions/tricks yet.

Frankly speaking,

For magic i devided in to two.

Illusion - Amaze people eveview, no mistake had made
Trick - showing out secrets instead of magic, people know you fooling them

for example word coming out from audience
"Show me some trick?" -> In other word saying try to fool me, maybe i can break magician's code.

"Show me some magic?" -> In other word I enjoy your show, not trying to break magician's code.

The word "Layman" which I really hate to hear but NIKE like them because nike slogan "just do it".:). Always perfrom trick than magic.

For magician will know the professional word "illusion".
Even you know how the magic work, but still you love them.
I can feel that how much time that magician had spend against this illusion.

Aerox, friendly speaking "miracle" i need to know your feeling when use the word "miracle".

Keep it as simple and stupid.

Tricks? Illusions? Magic? Miracles? Effects? Demonstration? Etc Etc - they are just words - nothing more - just words.

Every performance happens in the mind of the audience - and the result of your action in the mind of the viewer is - ????

-- hey his hands are pretty fast and skillful
-- hey this is fun and entertaining - show me more
-- hey who does he think he is - showing off to everyone
-- hey I can do that too - just need to go to a magic shop to buy it
-- hey I haven't seen that before
-- hey he is trying to imitate David Blaine or the Mondo Magic boys

Or would you want a response like this -

Holy cow! Who is this guy? I want to know him better. What is his name? This is real magic, man. He beats everyone hands down. I want him/her in my next event. I want to be his friend or fan.

If after a performance you cannot excite the audience to remembering who you are - your name and the lack of strong impact you have not made in his mind ...

... it doesn't matter what word (tricks, illusions, etc) you choose to use.

Guys, even if you have no intention of becoming a PRO - it would make a big difference in your life if you can create strong impacts in people's mind.

If people can remember you, want to know you and feels good to be with you - doesn't it help in whatever career you are in?

That is why the 'Magic Super-Stars' remain super-stars.

* They focus on empowering themselves through magic.
* They focus on making the impact with magic.
* They focus on being different from the others.
* They keep investing in themselves, upgrading themselves in every way.

If you guys want to be good and respectable in the art of magic ...

--- please focus on developing yourself first and know what you want to become in the world of magic and in the real world.

I don't think you want to be seen as a trickster, right? If that is the case why then behave like a trickster in the first place- the way you perform your effects/tricks.

I don't think you want to be seen as a magic shop demonstrator, right? Then why perform like one.

You guys don't realise that the words you use in your presentation/patter reveals that you are a trickster, or newbie in magic, or a demonstrator. The words or even the jokes used do not support what or who you think you are.

It also doesn't not make sense showing off the flourishes well and then conclude with a magic performance. You have just shown people how skillful you are and people will conclude that your hands are fast - that's why you can perform magic. You are just known as a person with fast hands and even worst you may be known as a card juggler/acrobat.

Super-stars magicians are also very good in flourishes but they don't show off their skills that easily. They will only use them when the time is right. All super-stars magicians are good in close-up, flourishes, manipulation, magic classics, talking acts, children acts and illusion shows. That means they are all-rounders. They are also good in getting the respect they deserve from the public, good marketers, good entrepreneurs and they are also multi-millionaires.

I don't mean to say that you guys must beome a PRO but at least be damn good in the art of magic and be respectable as someone special.

There's just too much talk, in M'sia, about all kinds of topic related to the art of magic, the profession of magic and the business of magic.

Malaysian magicians want this and that, want to be like ... or want to be better than ... or want to be the best, etc etc but in major magic events M'sia is not even represented by anyone of those that have been talking.

Almost every night I have been having teh tarik with amatuer magicians and the common denominator seen all the time - just a lot of talking. The only productive time I have - are with the PROS and my students.

I'm sorry I have to put this post a little bit hard on everyone.

If you want to be good, impressionable and respectable in the art - there is a BIG price to pay.

* Lots of practicing
* Lots of thinking work
* Lots of research, studying and reading
* Lots of trial and error perfecting your act
* Lots of investment in quality stuffs
* Lots of respect to intellectual property
* Lots of effort experimenting on better techniques

Guys, you haven't seen some of my magician friends (they are not PROS) - the effort and commitment they put into the art of magic can even put some of the M'sian PROs to shame. These people are highly respectable and are very very busy with their work, profession or businesses. You guys are not the only ones busy here. Yet they are good in magic in many ways.

It is the commitment to the art and to yourself that counts.

I am being hard on this post because I have noticed the standard or quality of posts in MMF have dropped tremendously. And I hope this post is a wake-up call. If my absence from posting is noticed - that means I'm putting my time to better use.

Hope you guys choose to excel genuinely rather than just talking about it and no actions are taken.

If you guys think you are young in age, then how about the FISM champions - they are only between the age of 18 - 25 and they are not PROs. At that age they are already world champions. This shows they have use their time wisely. 15 years - 25 years old are also seen in China, Japan and even Russia excelling in the art of magic. They spend a lot of time with their mentors to perfect themselves in the art.

M'sia tak boleh! Cakap saja. Sudah tua, tak boleh! Masih muda, tak boleh! Bila boleh?

NOTE: This post is not targeted to anyone specifically but to the attitude of the M'sian magic community as a whole.

I have extended my hand to help but no one in MMF really come forward productively and constructively to discuss how they can excel in magic.

ANNOUNCEMENT: I am currently coaching 6 super-stars in magic and through them they will take M'sian Magic to the next level. Their presence will rock the magic scene in M'sia in the near future. This 6 people are also very busy but yet they find time to excel.

MODERATORS: If you think this post is a bit too ... you can always delete it.

QUESTION: Have you ever wondered why the real PROS don't spend time in MMF? If you want contributions from them - ponder upon my words in this post seriously.

Deeply agree with you mr. james.

because you respect and value your audience then you will work even harder.

James,

thanks for the wake up call. All too true.

i prefer "show me some sleight of hand magic"

hehe...

nah... im ok with both. Most of my frens know i always use normal deck to perform magic and they know its all abt card control and sleight of hands...

they still amaze by it....

they amazed by how good your sleight of hand and your control of cards, but not the effect i think :)
i dont even let ppl know i am controlling the cards :)

are we controlling the card? NO~~... its MAGICK~!!

Well... its not wrong to say to some people that its all abt card control.

It depends... i dont go tell everyone. hehe....

If you ask someone... a normal person. do u believe that one can do real magic. what do you think they will say. Most prob the will say No. Its all illusion or the way the magician manipulate the cards etc.

if really u tell them that u can do real magic... then they will say ok then... fly then i believe u can do real magic... and u're stuffed.

There's nothing wrong if they know its abt how u manipulate or control the cards. Its how u deceive them that ur card is not being control... by showing them ya card is really lost.... not on top not at bottom etc.... (only magician knows where exactly it is).

I dunoo... maybe im just too used to doing card magic for some time already that i think most would know is all abt the way we control the cards. Maybe if u do it to an uneducated or someone unfamiliar with playing cards, perhaps they would think its real magic.

it also depends on the efffect u do....

of course they know its not real magic :) but this dosent mean u have to tell them u know how to control cards.. maybe this is your style i dont know, haha..
for me, i want them to have totally no clue how i do my magic..
give u an example, when u do levitation, will u tell them u are using IT?? although they dunno how u attach your IT, do u think that they will still be amazed??

u cant compare card effects to levitation effects as IT is sumthing extra. Cards i can show them.. they are free to examine.... no worries.

Like i said, i dont tell everybody that its all abt the way we control.

But sometimes in a gambling routine i do tell them that. I do tell some of my frens to becareful during gambling... people can control cards.... S/B/C deals etc blah blah. I do educate them. Its ok, IMO to educate ya frens abt this.

Often when doing this, one can proceed to stun them with a suprice ending that in magic not only u should be able to control the cards but also do deliver a suprise ending... eg aces changing to the royal flush or sumthing along that line.

lol it's just bout your own style...Brendan might look like a card control pro wif fast hands and i tink there is nothing wrong with it...though my style is completely different

but for the educate part i dont think is neccessary...they still cant catch a gambler who had mastered the deals and there are still countless gambling cheating skills...i dont think a laymen should know all these skills

hehe... true also wat u said ineverregret :P hmmm....

they'll probably catch me... coz im really bad with all these! haha

Okay, show me some "magic" when we meet up, and I'll show you some "tricks".

James, thanks for the wake up call. In fact, it should be the first thing read whenever anyone wanna post here now.

Kam,

I need to turn all my "trick" become magic before showing to you. I will pratice as hard as I could instead showing "trick" then magic.

LoL.

Anyway I enjoy if you amaze my eye.

"Hey u wanna see something weird.... i cant explain it can u help me??" :wub:

"hey check out my cards its acting funny...." :P

"hello can u help me hold this card..."

haha not bad right??

if only people say yes to this line here.... most of them dont so in the end i say
"hi wanna c magic FREE?" the word free is so improtant to some <_<